I have been reading Women and Islam, a book by the Moroccan Feminist, Fatema Mernissi. I have found a few quotes which I find quite interesting, when dealing with the issue of the hijab. To her hijab means segregation and is used as a medium of asserting heirarchy between the rulers and the people.
"The concept of the word hijab is three-dimensional, and the three dimensions often blend into one another. The first dimension is a visual one: to hide something from sight. The root of the verb hajaba means 'to hide'. The second dimension is spatial: to separate, to mark a border, to establish a threshold. And finally, the third dimension is ethical: it belongs to the realm of the forbidden." (93)
"The concept of the hijab is a key concept in Muslim civilisation, just as sin is in the Christian context, or credit is in American capitalist society. Reducing or assimilating this concept to a scrap of cloth that men have imposed on women to veil them when they go into the stress is truly to impoverish this term, not o say to drain it of its meaning, especially when one knows that the hijab, according to the Koranic verse and al-Tabari's explanation, 'descended' from Heaven to separate the space between two men." (95)
"The Muslim God is the only monotheistic God whose sacred place, the mosque, opens on to the bedroom, the only one to have chosen a Prophet who does not keep silent about his concerns as a man, but who, on the contrary, voices his thoughts about sexuality and desire." (115)
This is quite an amazing book, it looks at the role of women from the time of Muhammand and how he dealt with them...really a must read for anyone intersted in this topic, or anyone who would like to see how diverse the interpretations are when it comes to women's issues. Mernissi is an amazing writer, all her books are great, and I've read them all, bas another one that people should read is, Women's Rebellion and Islamic Memory. In it she makes a statement that is quite obvious bas at the same time when I read it I found it quite shocking: "The Eastern man places his honour(sharaf) between the legs of a woman." (This is not a direct quote since I don't have the book on me bas its pretty much what she says.)
Makes one think doesn't it, about how our society is structured and why it is structured like it is?
Lulwa, thanks for bringing up our attention about this book.I will make sure to check it out.
ReplyDeleteHi Lulwa,
ReplyDeleteCan I ask you a question. do you believe in God?
Try to be frank about it as much as you can. Do you have suspicions, own opinions, hesitations, etc. Between you and yourself, just take a break for five minutes, and think... I'm very curious to know the answer.
I think hijab is just another kind of "censorship", its sad that people got to the point of censoring themselves!!
ReplyDeletego get a live men shan alaaah .. why are you always attacking Islam .. trust me someday you will be really sorry for what are you saying , my advise for you ,, go get a life
ReplyDeleteGo lulwa, go lulwa, go!!!
ReplyDeleteOur soul purifier, our enlighter, Lulwa Hasselhoff. We worship lulwa, we worship lulwa. We'll do whatever lulwa says, lets play "Lulwa Says".
Lulwa says, hijab is bad.
Lulwa says, islam is wrong.
Lulwa says, our prophet is bad.
Lulwa says, lets become the bitchful society.
Lulwa, why not write a book about how you will - with the help of george bush and the US army - help us out from all the darkness we live in, and show us the way to purity and self-respect.
Lulwa, please, free me with your hands. Freedom is what I seek. Set me free, set me free. LulwaAAAAAA!!!!!!
Lulwa, come on give us aggravating ideas, enjoy freedom to the maximum. Enjoy it to the max!!!!! Optimum enjoyment, dont waste the high. Optimum. Ooooooooooof.
Great job Lulwa. Great job. Salaaa7 il-deen will be so proud of you, along with your grandpa and omar ibn al-khattab. All the islamic nation will be so proud of you Lulwa. You saved us 1400 years of darkness, you are our saviour.
AWUMAWE, AWUMAWE, AWUMAWE,
In the jungle the mighty jundle, Lulwa is here to save.
In the jungle, the mighty jungle, Lulwa is our savoir.
AWUMAWE, AWUMAWE, AWUMAWE,
Wow, you've got a lot of annoying little pricks commenting on your blog lately.
ReplyDeleteI do think that hijab can be properly redefined by women who are not interested in censoring themselves, but feel that for them, hijab can be used to cut oneself of from the mortal world and be closer to God.
Personally, I've never felt that way about a piece of cloth, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Lulwa says, hijab is bad.
ReplyDeleteLulwa says, islam is wrong.
Lulwa says, our prophet is bad.
Lulwa says, lets become the bitchful society.
I would love to know when did I ever say any of this rubbish-other then hijab is bad!!!
Also i would love for all these Anonymous gits to actually have the courage to state their names...I state my opions openly and have no fear of what people might think of them...bas to leave comments like I have been getting lately without knowing WHO is writting is them...is just well cowardly!
Marhaba, I like to write you an email. I am a german student doing a trainee for some months in jordan. I just working on a magazine which collects impressions from people from jordan or about Jordan.
ReplyDeleteYour story about the book and the hijab sound very interesting!
Thanks Anja
E-mail to Anja.Hendel@gmx.de
Natalia, since u'r the only one reasoning here; i quite dont understand how hiding parts of own body can get one closer to "God"?! Does hiding behind a piece of cloth really make one a better person?
ReplyDeleteI think what we need as humans is to open up, be more "transparent" in dealing with eachother, rather than finding more reasons to conceal ourselves!
There is an Arabic saying translated as: "People hide behind their clothes" (in arabic: "el-nas m5abayeh bi-tyabha"). I think this is what is happening! I am not saying that we all now become nudists, but maybe we should learn from them that if clothes will hide our true identities, maybe we should give them a rest!
I actually have no idea how hijab can make one feel closer to God, but I've talked to women who have had the experience, and I trust their judgement. However, it is obvious that not everyone is going to have these experiences. Me? Never. ;)
ReplyDeleteYa 3ammi, Stop staying stupid stuff. For GODNESS sake! Stop saying stupid stuff Natalia, please.
ReplyDeleteStop giving us your home-made wisdom, coz its very clear you know absolutely nothing about islam, nothing.
"I actually have no idea how hijab can make one feel closer to God"
-Natalia
Who ever said hijab is the way to feel closer to god. Its an order from God. When God orders something, we dont question. You have total freedom to do it or leave it, and you will be judged by your actions when its time.
Prophet Abraham was ordered to slaughter his son through a Ru'yaa. The first time he suspected it was a dream, the second time he suspected, and the third time he was sure it was an order from God.
After he became sure it was an order from God, he didn't question God's wisdom, he didn't question anything. He just took a knife and went to slaughter his son, and his son told him to slaughter him from the back of his neck so as not to look into his eyes and make it harder on his father.
Gospels are not bed time stories, and abraham was not in a Dare or Truth game. This story was set and passed to humanity as an example to full obedience to God.
What in the world is harder than being ordered to kill your own son?
And even harder not to propose a single question? Coz abraham knew that God is the source of ultimate wisdom.
And now you're questing a simple order about Hijab? And questioning the wisdom behind God's orders? This is very selfish I believe and out of line.
If you dont believe in prophet Mohammad or islam then this is a different story. But being a muslim and asking those below average questions is really very naive.
Uh, first of all, I'm not a Muslim. Thank God. Islam is a beautiful religion, but it's filled up to the brim with psychos, fundies, and phallocentric bores who want to suck all life out of everyone around them, and I wouldn't want to be a part of that irregardless of my personal beliefs.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all, there are a ton of Muslim women out there who do not have a narrow, fundamentalist view of hijab. I provided one such view, and believe me, it goes deeper into the understanding of hijab than your blathering about Abraham and his son. Who the hell are you to denigrate these women? I simply do not understand men who make other women's clothing their business. How the woman reads the Quran, or the Sunnah, or anything else for that matter, IS HER DAMN BUSINESS. Not yours.
Natalie, since you just said that you are not a Muslim. You could've easily saved yourself a headache and stopped just right there. Being a non-muslim justifies your case completely.
ReplyDeleteI understand that you (choose to) see hijab as degrading for a woman, on the other hand, many muslimaat see it as a symbol of decency and 3ifeh and choose to put it on.
The ton of muslim women you know are speaking out cause it contradicts their thoughts and the environment they were raised in, and are in no way expressing the truth about islam and sharee3a.
In islam, clothing is everybody's business, not just women. Men should not wear tight trousers that outline their bodies or shorts over the knees.
Your appearance is the only thing strangers know about you, and clothing is a large part of it. Choosing to ignore people's perceptions about you means the same as choosing to be arrogant and irrespective. Note that I'm not justifying hejab in what I just said, but I'm justifying "the business of clothing".
In islam, everyone should try to affect everyone around him in a positive way. We are all part of one community. Thats why sometimes I accept being critized from different people around me, whether its clothing, appearance, the way I speak, feedback is the best way for improvement. If I close all doors and start saying to people that everything IS MY DAMN BUSINESS, then I'll be isolating myself from society and setting myself as a loser.
My name isn't Natalie. It's Natalia.
ReplyDeleteI don't view hijab as a sign of subjugation. I view FORCED hijab as a sign of subjugation. Big difference between the two.
My boyfriend's mum is a devout Muslim, born into the religion, and the only time she ever veiled in public was in Saudi, where she was forced to. And no, it's not your damn business to tell her how to read her religion.
The day men stop feeling justified in butting into women's business will be a glorious day for Islam. Until then, keep dreaming.
FORCED hejab? Depends on what you mean by FORCED? Yes, I agree on what you are saying, Forcing is hard to digest, specially if applied with some rudeness.
ReplyDeleteBut respecting a law that specifies a certain uniform, I dont see anything wrong with that.
Let me tell you something, France recently placed a law to abandon any religious signs and Hejab was one of them. Many islamic sheiks gave the people a fatwa (license) to not wear hejab in France, since Muslims are living inside a non-muslim country should abide with and respect their law (or leave) and for a second reason which is that this could endanger the muslims in France and put them through trouble. Specially the women.
On the other hand, you find it really hard for someone visiting Saudi Arabia to confine with the islamic uniform? Why is that? You're blaming the so called psychos, fundies, and phallocentric bores of imposing uniform rules, when those same claimed psychos, fundies, and phallocentric bores are respecting the french rules as we speak.
Maybe you're right, maybe men are butting into women's business these days, but when it comes to Hejab, you have to understand that it is a clear Godly law in Islam passed through Jabriel to prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and it is not an ambiguous or debatable law.
And stop burning in flames, I'm not asking you to understand my point of view, I'm just asking you 'to try' to understand part of it maybe.
Good luck Natalia.
No, it's not a clear Godly law. There are many interpretations of it. Especially wherein the Quran is concerned. Hadith is more clearer on the subject, but then again, there are a ton of Muslims out there who do not give a hoot about the Hadith, as they are viewed as corrupted and unreliable.
ReplyDeleteAs for France, it only outlawed Hijab in spaces such as government schools and offices. I don't support their decision, I think it's wrong, but it's part of a larger demographic crisis they need to address. The immigrant Muslim population has a hard time fitting in, and the French authorities have really missed their chance in easing up on the tension.
As for Saudi, it's got double standards when it comes to this stuff. Personally, I am not a fan of anyone being forced to wear anything that lies outside the standard.
Women are not children. They can make these decisions for themselves. In France, in Saudi, and in other places.
Oh, and sorry about "burning in flames" (I think I know what you mean here). I've got a sharp tongue when it comes to these things.
ReplyDeleteIts one of two, you either seem to know more than me in islamic shari3a, or you have the potential to talk in any subject whatsoever, even if you know so little about.
ReplyDeleteMuslims who do not give a hoot about hadith are not considered muslims at all, this is very clearly stated in the QURAN itself.
Hadeeths have levels of accuracy, the strongest is "Muttafaqn Alei". All islamic sheiks you'll ask will tell you clearly that Hejab is part of Sharee3a. Whoever is telling you otherwise doesn't understand his/her religion at all.
If you still feel that this is not-authentic, I can help you out with some research.
"I am not a fan of anyone being forced to wear anything that lies outside the standard"
-
Which standards Natalia? Who defines them? Transparent clothing seems to be making its way into these standards, as well a G-strings hanging over girls asses just above the jeans is also becoming part of these standards, maybe an earing on the nose too, or a large tatoo on the arm all the way day to the gentiles, maybe we'll start seeing women in bikinis at work. I'm very curious to know who's defining them.
So tired. Good night.
Natalia, I skimmed through some of your articles at globalcomment.com. You seem to be having a sharp tongue on many occasions. When I mentioned 'burning in flames' I didnt imply your sharp tongue. I was implying the frustration you were sufferring while posting your comments. As if you're brain was totally consumed by those subjects.
ReplyDeleteDont take our discussion as a means of scoring points on each other. Thats not it. I totally understand your views and how a foreigner perceives these concepts. And am making some space for mine.
I'm not scoring points, dude. I'm just saying: you and I have seen Islam from different points of view.
ReplyDeleteClerics nowadays will tell you that it's Ok for a woman to be raped if she isn't wearing hijab. Clerics are to be taken with a grain of salt.
There is plenty of Muslim literature on the issue of hijab, and not all of it claims it to be compulsory.
I think you're excessively paranoid about the way women dress. Not to mention extremely turned on. It's Ok, individual women will dress how they want to dress. Playboy Playmates are naked at their workplace, and they make decent money and are more than happy with their lives. The world is full of different people who do different work that requires them to dress differently.
Don't be so hung up on women's bodies. It's quite telling.
Peace.
Ya Lulwa,
ReplyDeleteYou share a name with a favourite writer of mine, Loolwa Khazzoom.
Also, I love Mernissi.
And don't let this trolls get you down, innit. Some of us like reading your writing.
Keep it up!
I love what u wrote and what u always write... ]
ReplyDeleteI read a lot about such stuff, check this.
http://www.islameyat.com/pal/aldalil/aldalil_old.htm
Hi wedad,
ReplyDeleteYou seem so comfortable about stabbing humanities prophet in the back with the link you just posted.
Hmmm, you know something. This reminds me of the same things the jews used to say about Virgin Mary in their Talmud, they refused in anyway to believe that the birth of Jesus was a miracle, so they went on creating rumours and stabbing her in the back... they made the story that Virgin Mary was actually on a relation with a jewish soldier and they had sex and this is how she got pregnant.
This is what they documented in their Talmud, not only that, when they saw Jesus's miracles of curing the sick and reviving the dead, rather than believing in the miracles they saw, they chose to come up with the story that Jesus uses "deamons to fight daemons", and is related to the daemons in one way or another. With all the purity Prophet Jesus had, they easily made up rumours and convinced themselves that their own made up lies were true.
Wedad and her followers are happy to spread the same stories about prophet Mohammad that jews used to spread about Jesus and Virgin Mary. All that to feed her suspicions about the true religion and to justify her attachment to her current religion.
Wedad thinks: "The more I can prove that prophet Mohammad is a bad person, the more I can convince myself of my current religion and feel happy about Jesus, lets try to find something on the internet that stabs Mohammed on the back as much as possible, aaaaah, here's a nice link, I love this link, let me post it on lulujordan.blogspot.com, this will spread enough stain on this prophet even if its not authentic".
Seems its very easy to make up rumours and stab a prophet in your case Wedad, you feel safe at home when you do that.
By the way Wedad, the link you sent is damn ill, the language they use at the site shows what kind of wicked un-mannered people are behind it. I dont think they even believe in God.
Here are two links to balance all the stain Wedad left here without cleaning after her:
A study from the USC university, Head Of Deparment of Philosophy By Prof. Ramakrishna Roa (by the way this Prof is a non-muslim):
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/lifeofprophet.html
The second link is a video discussing how Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the USA:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069
By the way, I dont know if you checked the Guiness Book of Records this year, but Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, for each one converting to christianity there are 10 people converting to islam. Not only that, but the percentage of Islam growth is higher (2.7%) than the growth of the human population (2.1%). You can check that on Google Answers.
Wedad, sorry for this, but you are pathetic.
the bright side,
ReplyDeleteI don't mind people having a discussion on my blog, but there is no reason to insult people...everyone has a right to their opinion fa please DO NOT call people pathetic...or tell them to get a life...because that is not how people have civilised discusions!
Wedad,
thank you for liking my blog, and please don't listen stop coming here just because of people like bright side...which by the way is not really a good name for you since you are not showing us your bright side!
bright side, really iam so thankful for your comment here :) i dont know why i feel happy when i read and i know ur opinion.. just to let you know my church includes lot of muslems and why coz they really believe in a true god (god who can share their life with) and most of our girls married those guys but unforutnatly out of jordan coz you know they will kill him or kill her!! and about the people who converst to islam not coz they are convenced its right, but they want to divorce or marry another woman and those i can call them pathetic :) where is the freedom in this!! I have the write to chose what i want in my life especially if it will affect my eternal life..am i wrong if i chose HEAVEN instead of hell :) God i love so much and iam soo happy that u gave us a chance to chose to be with you.
ReplyDeleteand i dont want to start argument will not end till all of us die...
but i can say that all of us will die someday and that time all of us will know the truth but i hope it will not be too late for others :)
I worship a real alive god not a dead man!!
blesses
Lulwa :) thanks dear, i'll keep coming here dont worry.
hi, first comment on this site. Also find Mernissi v. interesting btw. Just wanted to make a slightly tangential point.
ReplyDeleteIn this Hijab v. Western 'nudity' argument that circulates so widely on the web, I am struck by the fact that people will defend to the death one side or the other but not explore the idea that neither prevailing social norm adequately emancipates women or pressurises men to change their attitudes.
Now, I come from a very liberal western background and - although it has plenty of advantages - it depresses the hell out of me that the pleasure principle and consumer attitudes towards other people seem often to prevail.
I don't much like being judged on how I look, nor that simple desire seems to determine whether relationships last or not (now I love you - now I don't: I love you but I don't want commitment and kids while you're young enough to have them - and when I finally want them I don't want you anymore and will run off the neighbour instead...).
OK, so the problem with a lot of people in my society is that choice doesnt come with alot of philosophical or principled bagage. That or I am hanging out with the wrong crowd;)What I consider wrong with modern life, as Mignon McLauchlin so delightfully put it in 1960 is - talk without meaning, desire without love, work without satisfaction. I don't want to live in a society where values are devalued.
But I don't think the answer to this fundamentally inhumane way of life, and particularly women, is necessarily to defend hijab. I mean, the modesty stuff as a principle works for me. But who decided that to be modest you have to cover EVERYTHING. Why doesn't God want women to swim, to feel the air and sun on their skin, to roll up their sleeves on a warm day?
These things are natural. They are not done to attract a man but to keep fit, to keep cool, to keep healthy. Why can't we have a middle way which allows women to stop defining themselves in relation to men's desires and ideas and in terms of what they want?
I want men to respect me. I don't want to have to dress like a tart to get their attention. But equally I don't feel I should have to hide everything to get their respect. One argument is that God tells you to wear hijab. But its corollary is that it is for the social good. So women don't get molested and mistreated.
By whom??? Men. Why don't we just teach the damn creatures proper humanistic principles? Maybe then we can stop worrying about what we wear and more about who we are and what we represent.
Salaam, peace, auf wiedersehen, adieu
btw, don't think the previous post was a crit of anyone's view in particular. I just liked this site n' thought it was interesting...
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