The Reply

Ok, so a request for a reply has been given twice, and I am not going to bow out or chicken out, even though I really don’t think that this discussion will end here…bas yallah no harm in trying.

The Sandmonkey
Lulwa's Logic

Let's take Hamas for example, shall we? Hamas kept blowing shit up and disrupting shit every single time Fatah moved forward with something. They were the tough guys, the we will destory israel guys. Fine. They won the election, and they still maintain that they want Israel destroyed. Ok, well,that's their right. And It's Israel's right to not give them their money, to lock up their borders and not let them pass through to Israel.

Israel does not have the right to stop funds meant for the Palestinians just because it does not agree with the policy of the ELECTED government. I don’t see the logic, for an OCCUPYING force to have the ‘right’ as you call it to decide when and where it will allow money meant for humanitarian reasons to be allowed in or out of the areas it has forcibly and illegally occupied. Also, I think it is a bit untrue that Hamas ruined things with Fateh was doing so well, if they were doing so well then why in GOD’s name did the Palestinians elect Hamas? Hamas is proving people wrong all the time, they are one of the most pragmatic movements I have ever seen, I am sure that sooner rather then later they will recognise Israel…and I wonder what the Palestinian street will say?


It's also the US and the EU's right to cut off the AID, because, well, it is aid. It's not a right or an entitlement. I agree, without that aid we have ourselves a real humantarian crisis in ghaza, but those people made their choice. They chose Hamas. Fine. With the choice comes responsibility and reprucussions. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and economic sanctions have always been an acceptable form of international pressure to affect policy. And it's not like they want Hamas to step down or anything; they just wnat them to say "we want peace and we don't want Israel destroyed". Hamas doesn't wnat to do that. Ok, fine Hamas, but can you explain to me then why should we support you again? Why would we want you to succeed again?

As you clearly stated, the aid is HUMANITARIAN aid…by definition then it can’t be used as a way to effect policy. That kind of humanitarian aid would that be? Economic sanctions are a completely different things, and we saw well they worked in Libya and in Iraq-where in Libya the policies might have changed toward that west bas there is still internal political repression. In Iraq it didn’t work at all, the people starved but the ‘regime’ was not changed only when the West came in guns blazing.

And I am sorry, the pictures of the kids 5 and 6 year old kids that they brought from kindergardens and had them make a protest where they carried a coffin that portrays the danish flag on it was disgusting. The fact that you are mad at me for displaying the pciture and not mad at them for exploiting the 5 year old children this way says something about your moral judgment. But anyway..

Now seriously, you are just as bad as your so called leftist…it says nothing about my moral judgement, I was not saying that Hamas should do that…or should not do that…I was just saying that showing the pictures…without context was a bit much.

I am opposed to the MB, mainly because there isn't a single terrorist group that made attacks in Egypt in the past 30 years that didn't spring from them. Hell, Al Zawahiri is, or was depending on who tells it, a member of the MB. So yeah, you can imagine why I wouldn't be very happy with them. Not to mention, once they reach power, forget that they leave it. Imagine if the MB wins, and then in the next election the people vote in a secular party, do you think they will just be like "The people have chosen and we will leave the power to those secularists?" Or are they going to be like "This is an islamic country, and we can't allow those secularists to destory that, even if people democratcially voted for them"? Which is closer to reality?

To be honest, and here you might say again that I am being to much of a lefts, bas I don’t think that we can judge what ‘they’ are going to do, before they even get into power. And what is this pacifist attitude, you are telling me that if people decide to get rid of MB or Hamas, and they say NO…people will just sit back and be ah ok…fine…sure not a problem? Maybe I am a bit naive, bas I don’t think so.

And while we are at it, can you explain to me how can we argue with them when it comes to implemnatation of shria laws in our countries if they do win? They will just look you and tell you "God said so. You know better than god?" and anything you may say to them will be ineffective. You can't argue with "cause god said so" for the same reason you can't argue with "Islam is the solution", because what are you gonna say? Islam is not the solution? Ha. That would be a sight to see.

Now here I agree with you, and as a woman and as a feminist, one of my main objections to these sorts of parties, is their disregard for women, and their rights. I starting writing my PhD to see if as a Secular, Palestinian woman I would be willing to vote for these people. And to be honest I wouldn’t, bas I also believe that if we are going to do this democracy thing, then we have to allow stuff like this to happen…we have to experience it…we have to see what will happen…not judge…that is just unfair not only to them-who cares you would say-bas also to us…how can we say we want democracy yet not allow ourselves to experience the good and bad of that?

If the people in my country wnat the MB, then that's fine by me. I am pro demcoracy, even if that democracy brings us to the shit that will be the MB rule. Let them too live with the consequences of their actions. I figure that after 20 years or so they too will be as fed up as the people of Iran are and they will recognize that mixing politics with religion doesn;t work. Sure, in those 20 years I won't be living in my cuntry, cause I am not stupid, but that's also my right.

That is just ridicules, instead of leaving, why not try to change what you don’t like…hate these kinds of comments that our generation of Arabs have, if we don’t like our countries or people then we leave…how fucking stupid???? Rather then plan your life on leaving Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine…stay…change what you don’t like, if we all leave then who will be left? No wonder the Islamists are so powerful, at least they sit it out, deal with the shite and the good.

I am sure you are not going to agree with me, and I don’t know if I made myself clear or not, I am not saying I want these people in power-or not in power…I am just saying that is not correct, unfair, unjust, whatever you want, to discount them…so out of hand…without looking at each case. Lets see what will happen…am I being a softy…an idiot…guess only time will tell, bas I am willing to deal with the consequences and I will stay and try to change whatever I can.